Emotional intelligence is something I believe can change the world and the world of business. I was thrilled to have this conversation with Stephen Sakach and Michael Liniski on their The Bliss Business Podcast. Topics we discussed were:
- Emotional intelligence becomes critical as entrepreneurs grow beyond the “my way or the highway” approach that initially builds their business.
- Become a better leader by developing your listening skills and being curious about those you lead.
- Grow your business, by hiring people better than you and letting them do things their way.
- Slow down once a year and once every quarter to figure out the biggest challenge in front of the company and the 3-5 critical goals for the year and the quarter.
- Be kind to those you lead—hold them accountable to what they commit to.
- If you struggle with alcoholism or addiction, ask for help.
- Build your resiliency by making sure you plan specific goals just for yourself.
- Help people grow by creating a safe spaces for people to share and be vulnerable.
- Drive innovation and employee engagement with a multi-decade purpose for your company.
- Pushing people to do things they don’t believe they can do, but which you do, is an act of love.
Audio
Transcript
Announcer (00:04):
The Bliss Business Podcast, the show about empathy, connection, and consciousness in business. Today’s episode is brought to you by Zero Company, your paid search, social media, and programmatic ad experts.
Stephen Sakach (00:18):
Welcome back everybody. We’ve got our first guest broadcasting from a boat today, which is nice. So hopefully everything connection stays well. It’s been good so far. So welcome to the show where we explore how empathy, connection, and purpose transform business from the inside out. I’m Steven with my cohost Mike. A, according to Harvard Business Review, emotional intelligence accounts for nearly 90% of what sets high performers apart from their peers. It’s not just a soft skill, it’s a strategic advantage. And our guest today is a seasoned entrepreneur, coach, author, and helps high performing leaders harness EQ to unlock clarity, connection, and results. Mike, please introduce our guest today.
Michael Liniski (01:03):
Yes, Steven, it’s going to be my great pleasure today on the show. We’re joined by none other than David Greer, the leadership coach. David has spent decades now helping founders, executives, and leadership teams as well, which we know our audience has a great interest in to navigate not just growth per se, but cultural challenges that take place and as well personal transformation for a lot of these individuals as well. David’s the author of Wind In Your Sails, Vital Strategies That Accelerate Your Entrepreneurial Growth, right? Very apropos that he’s on a sailboat today. And then as well, he’s a serial entrepreneur himself. David combines his business expertise with deep emotional intelligence coaching to really help leaders overcome things like fear and how to align their teams and lead really with intention that we know is critical for a leader. So David, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here today.
David Greer (02:13):
Thank you for the invitation and thank you for letting me part of the change you two and your company are bringing to the world. Thank you.
Michael Liniski (02:21):
Yeah, we appreciate it. We’re glad to have you as part of our community and helping us with our movement. Maybe David, we can just start off with a little bit of a perspective question. Why does emotional intelligence tell us matter now more than ever would you say in business?
David Greer (02:41):
One of the takeaways I had from the intro when you talked about your company and your work is change from the inside out. And this has been my personal experience is that growth actually, it’s the kind of big secret in the coaching industry. It’s really about changing from the inside out. You hire a coach, but then I really just reflect back to you and you are responsible for your change and usually you are getting in your own way and I just help point that out and help you to grow in whatever way that looks like. And I think in a lot of the ways we need to grow is in improving our emotional intelligence.
(03:33):
I work a lot with owner founders and going to call myself out on this as well where we’re hard driving, we founded a business, we took a lot of risk and it’s kind of my way or the highway, and that gets you to a certain point until it doesn’t, right? My belief is that the single biggest limiting factor to growth is the entrepreneur herself or himself or in bigger companies. It’s really where’s the next generation of leadership coming from, and that’s the limiting factor on how fast you can grow. With some of the entrepreneurs and people that hire me, we end up working on what seems simple, but listening skills, actually listening, not busy brain with what you’re going to respond and defend, which Is hard if you’re a leader too.
Stephen Sakach (04:25):
You’ve got things going on and yeah, you got to stop and listen,
David Greer (04:29):
Right? To truly that is an amazing, amazing skill to truly, truly be able to listen to someone and hold space for them and not have your brain running around in busy brain. And then I think one of the most powerful things we have in life that is very under exploited is curiosity. If we can be curious, if we gave a task to someone and they didn’t do it before you start yelling at them, can you be curious about why they didn’t do it? Maybe you weren’t clear on what it was they were supposed to do. Maybe you didn’t set the expectation correctly. Maybe they don’t have the resources to do what they do, maybe they don’t have the skills, but if you don’t stay curious and maybe there’s other things going on, maybe they’re just procrastinating, maybe they’re afraid. All of those things though, you have to have high emotional intelligence if you’re willing to hold space for someone and be curious and try and discover that stuff. And that’s not the norm I think in a lot of our business environment.
Stephen Sakach (05:42):
When you’re talking to leaders, are there some common blind spots or emotional barriers that show up in leadership? What’s kind of the common sort of things that you see as far as blind spots? That self awareness sometimes that is just really hard to,
David Greer (06:00):
Again, if we look at it more in the context of who I think we work with and their teams, it’s like an entrepreneur hires some really good senior leaders and then they come to me because saying, they never listened to me, they never do what I ask and I dig into it. And the challenge is, as an owner operator, if you’ve founded something and built it from the ground up, you think you have the answer to everything because as you grew the company, you had to have the answer to everything. That was what worked. And when you hire someone smarter than you, well hopefully first of all, you hire someone smarter than you and better than you in some place that you’re not as good. But when you need to give them the goal and that them figure out how to do it, and a lot of entrepreneurs can’t do that.
(06:52):
They set the goal and then the person goes off to do it the way they know how to do, which is very, very different than the way the entrepreneur knows how to do it. They snatch back the controls, they grab the steering wheel and drive the bus again. And if you’re a very talented person that came to work for this to try and fill a gap and do your stuff, you’re not going to last for too long in that environment. And it’s not that the person isn’t listening, it’s that you’re not giving them a chance to do their stuff,
Michael Liniski (07:29):
Allowing them to shine really. Right? It’s a really good point.
David Greer (07:33):
And to do it their way until proven otherwise. I mean eventually the proof is in the results, but until proven that their way is the wrong way, you’ve got to let ’em go run with their skillset, which might be very different in a completely different approach than how you do it or how you’ve done it in the past. That’s another kind of echo of my way or the highway. And if you want to keep growing your business at some point, you need to let that go.
Michael Liniski (08:12):
For sure. Yeah, I mean I love that quote, right? Wisdom is proved correct by the results that it produces. So David, maybe shifting gears a little bit, you’ve talked in the past a little bit about slowing down to essentially go fast. I have a question around that. Can you maybe walk us through what does that look like, say in practice or especially for a founder or a company that’s in fast growth mode, what does that really look like? Slowing down to go fast?
David Greer (08:48):
For about 15 years I’ve used this framework called the one page strategic plan comes from Guy Verne [Harnish] two books, the Rockefeller Habits and for the last 10 years his principle book is called Scaling Up. A lot of the ideas come from Verne Harnish and then a lot of his ideas come from other people, but Verne Harnish has done a great job of putting it all together. One of the core practices of scaling up is meeting rhythm. And for high growth companies, the recommendation is you got to get offsite for two days to create your annual plan, this one page strategic plan, and then you need to get offsite a day every quarter for the rest of the year to do planning. And that’s quite a commitment, but it’s even more important when you’re in high growth and it’s even harder to do because there’s more fires, there’s more action, there’s more things happening.
(09:46):
But I think the core idea is this, you get together, you figure out the biggest challenge you’re facing, you come up with a short set of corporate goals. This is what the whole company needs to achieve in the next 13 weeks. A quarter is 13 weeks and here’s my assertion. In 13 weeks you can get a lot of stuff done and if you completely blew it and you moved in the wrong direction or the market completely changed or some new brutal fact showed up, you won’t kill the company in 13 weeks. 13 weeks long enough to get a lot done and short enough to regroup, replan. And also sometimes when I’m facilitating these sessions, this is some of my work that I do, what we do is at the end of a quarterly session say we agree these are the five goals for the next 13 weeks, and then when we get together in 13 weeks, we can go back to arguing whether these are the right goals or not. But for the 13 weeks we have to get these, the team and to all the rest of the employees in the company, we have to agree that this is where we’re going and we have to show up. We can’t back stab each other and undermine each other. This is part of the emotional intelligence is I have to give up my point of view for a quarter because we collectively agreed this was the best path forward. And it takes a big person to do that. I’m [not] saying that’s easy.
(11:16):
And then after the quarterly rhythm is the weekly rhythm where you meet with your senior management team and again, you’ve got the most expensive, smartest people in the company. You meet for an hour every week. You don’t want to be just reading reports and saying, yes, that is the time to have continued debate about what you need, what’s most important to get done in the next week, what are the most critical things that will move you to your four or five goals for the quarter or your four or five goals for the year. And as an entrepreneur as facilitating that, you have to make sure the debate is happening and it’s not just boring. And the other thing I would say for really successful high growth, high performance companies is out of that needs to come what I call a who, what, when list, which is what are the deadlines for the next week? Who was accountable to the rest of the team for those happening and what is the task that needs to get done?
(12:19):
And that kind of clarity, one of the things I see in a lot of companies is they seriously underestimate the power of writing things down. When you have a one page plan and you’ve written down where you want to be in three to five years, four or five things you’re going to get done this year and four or five things you’re going to done in this quarter, well it’s written down every week. You pull it out and say this is what we agreed, this is where we’re going. And then same thing with who, what, when it’s like last week you said we were going to go do this, right, and it’s not happening. What’s getting in the way? And again, there’s the debate on what is making this difficult or impossible and you come up with the new when for the next week. And it’s also, it’s an art because you need only the things on the, when the majority of the leadership team need to know about because you could get it down to all the minutiae for each person and their teams. That’s too much detail. There is a real art to building this rhythm. Again, it’s a soft skill. It’s not a computer scientist mathematician. I like precision and I’m going to get every single task written down. That’s [not what] we all need here.
Michael Liniski (13:37):
To the nth degree. Yeah, I’d have to agree with you on all those points. I found too that when question is probably the most critical one and bringing it back to the idea or the thought about emotional intelligence, sometimes leaders or even individuals themselves fear that when question, right because of fear of missing the mark by a certain time. So just I think helping individuals with emotional intelligence, just committing to that when question and making sure that we’re comfortable with asking it.
David Greer (14:14):
You probably have another question for me, but if I could segue for just a little bit on that when question, especially as a leader who’s leading a team, and I think either in the pre intro when we were chatting or once this started, you talked about how your company tries to focus on kindness and kindness in the workplace. And here’s the thing, if you are a leader and you’ve got a team working for you and you set these deadlines and then a person misses the deadline, I do a lot of coaching around having the difficult conversation, which all of us avoid just to a greater or lesser degree. And I’m a people pleaser so I could really avoid it, but to me the ultimate act of kindness is to hold the person accountable to what they said they would do. And when people shy away from that because it’s like I’m calling them out and you don’t have to make them bad or wrong, but you do have to call them on it. And if you don’t, you’re actually in my view of the universe, you’re being unkind because you’re not helping them discover what’s getting in their way or whether they’re getting in their own way or what they need to do to grow in order to meet those deadlines. And it’s interesting because I often have these conversations with clients where they really struggle with that and they don’t see it. I have to kind of point that out to them that you’re actually being unkind by not having the conversation.
Stephen Sakach (15:42):
Yeah, I would think that the phrase clarity is a form of kindness for people.
Stephen Sakach (15:49):
And too often we don’t have that clarity. And this is where you get into those problem areas real quick. For young folks coming into the workplace whose leaders may not be effective with the EQ skills, any advice for them?
David Greer (16:06):
And I have children that are in their thirties and late twenties, sometimes I end up having career conversations with them. One piece of advice I have is do everything possible ahead of time to try and figure out the culture of the company before you agree to go work for them.
(16:26):
Which in an environment, my son is currently looking for a new position and he’s probably averaging 300 applicants for everything that he applies for. That’s kind of very challenging. But on the other hand, he’s been in environments where he knows he really, really didn’t like it. I’m like, don’t be one of the 300 if you haven’t figured out that at least from the outside looking in or can you look at some of the sites that were employees that are there, talk about what it’s like or can you look at what public statements the CEO has said? Again, it’s a two-way street and in a tight job market, which certain aspects, like my son is a software developer and there’s been a lot of downsizing, there’s a lot of good developers on the street, but at the end of the day, he still wants an environment and a culture that he can be happy with and be aligned with. And then I think it’s fair to ask in the interview process questions around that it’s not all a one way street because if you’re really good then they should want to share that with you. And if they don’t, that also says something about their culture and about who they are.
Stephen Sakach (17:39):
Yeah, I think that’s really important just especially we’re kind of in this global emotional recession. They’ve shown all the data going down the past few years and it’s like, okay, this is trending the wrong direction for companies with younger folks coming into work and this trend that I’m talking about, what kind of systems or habits do you recommend to sustain this emotionally aware of leadership over time? What would you say would be places to start?
David Greer (18:13):
Well, if we’re going to talk about the individual and about habits to sustain the individual, especially high performing individuals. My former coach, Kevin Lawrence, in his book, your Oxygen Mask First has a framework where when you’re doing your planning for yourself, you break it into three buckets, which is business or if you’re going to be employed like your career and your finances, that’s all that kind of big bucket. And then your life, which is typically your relationships, your partner. For me, I’m intensely family person, so kids and grandkids. But here’s the deal is that for most of us that are really high performing and we’re very passionate about business, we’re very passionate about our life and what we do is we absolutely squeeze ourselves out of the middle. Kevin’s model is you actually need a bucket for self and you need to every quarter be doing things for your, I think I was at F45, which is a franchise fitness chain, which is probably one near you. I was there at 7:30 this morning. That’s part of my resiliency is keeping my fitness up. I turn 68 on Saturday and I still have a fitness regime five days a week, (19:40):
And that way I can run after my grandkids
Michael Liniski (19:45):
Blow off steam too. There’s so many good things that happen with the body, right? Endorphins release, your brain starts to flow.
David Greer (19:55):
And last week I did 10 days solo on my sailboat and 10 years ago it was almost impossible for me to just go do something without my spouse to just say to her, “Hey, I need a break and I’m going to go take a break.” And that’s been part of my personal growth is actually to move out of that codependency piece which we had and to say, “Hey, have we got any plans for anything in the next 10 days?” And if we don’t, then “Hey, I need some time. I need a timeout. I need to go build my resiliency and I’m just going to head off on the boat for 10 days.”
Stephen Sakach (20:35):
I think that kind of reset too is really important for people because they do get to in those 10 days or if you’re out on, I’ve gone on long hikes for a week or three days, but then it really does point out what’s important to you. A lot of times those relationships sometimes or it really does have you coming back fully engaged in a new way. I do agree that self part of it, people do squeeze that out of their …
David Greer (21:07):
Right and often it’s perceived as selfish and selfish is generally perceived as a negative thing. But here’s the deal, it’s like a pendulum. If you are selfless and just give to your life and your business, at some point there’ll be none of you left. If you are a hundred percent selfish, well you won’t have any friends, you probably won’t have a business. You swing back and forth and it’s like there is no perfect work life balance, but if you don’t do things to look after yourself, there won’t be anything of you left.
Stephen Sakach (21:45):
Especially the more responsibility you take on, the more I think you’re going to have to work on yourself.
David Greer (21:49):
Yes. Absolutely.
Stephen Sakach (21:51):
Otherwise you’re going to feel it. You’re going to hit those walls that maybe even panic attack level or something, but the more responsibility that you’re taking on, you may not feel it over time unless you’re really taking time out for yourself.
David Greer (22:05):
Sure. Well, you guys didn’t say it in the intro, but I’d like to be able to share here that for over 20 years I was a daily drinker and an alcoholic. That’s how I coped.
(22:17):
I coped with booze and 16 and a half years ago, an amazing coach came into my life who coached me to go to 12 step recovery and I got sober and I’ve been sober since, but I still go to three meetings a week. That’s what I need to make sure that my alcoholic brain doesn’t like take over again because I have drinking nightmares. It’s still there. And those meetings also give me other things. Like for example, it’s one of the rare spaces I’ve ever seen where people totally honor the person that’s speaking. You can hear a pin drop, like talk about holding space. I get to go to three meetings a week and watch all these human beings, many of whom maybe I’ve never met, who hold space for everyone else that’s there. It’s such a beautiful modeling of behavior that is very, I think rare in society and I think we could use a lot more of it in business, but I get to witness it through my recovery and it’s very much a part of my self-care and a part of that self bucket.
Stephen Sakach (23:23):
Does that come to play in your coaching too? When you see leaders with the self-medicating issues from your experience, does that help you through to get in touch with what they’re going through?
David Greer (23:40):
Yes. And again, I can’t get anyone sober. I come on podcasts like yours for one principle reason, which is to share my experience, strength and hope in business and recovery. That’s all I can do. I can share my story with them and maybe it’ll resonate, maybe it won’t. And I’ve had some clients who’ve been active drinkers and over time they built enough trust that I share more of that experience. And one case a young man looks like he’s finally on a good path to sobriety, but it was years in the making. In the meantime, I still coached him as an entrepreneur. Again, I just got to leave the door open and just show what that door might look like. And then I have others who’ve got multiple years in recovery and it’s sometimes it’s just much easier. I’ll say, for this business problem, which of the 12 steps would you apply? And they’re like, oh yeah, of course it’s obvious. Turn it over. The universe knows what the answer is here and I just need to do the next right step and not be attached to the outcome. That that’s how it shows up in my coaching mostly it’s just I’m there. If I get asked, I share some aspect of my story.
Michael Liniski (25:08):
That’s a good point though too. I love the point about self-care because it’s like the gas truck that runs out of gas itself right on the side of the road transporting a whole load of gasoline. So yeah.
Stephen Sakach (25:23):
We’ve got an audience question here. Let’s go to that. What can leaders do to make it safe for people to share how they really feel at work?
David Greer (25:35):
It gets back to listening skills. It’s critical that you don’t make the person bad or wrong for sharing, which is really easy to do, especially if their belief system is different than yours or what sometimes can happen when people share their feelings is unconsciously it triggers some trauma in you. Some of the biggest growth for me has been able to differentiate between a reaction and a response, and the difference is about three seconds. But first of all, I have to become aware that I’m in a reaction that took a lot of personal growth and personal work. If my wife asked me about finances, I will have an internal reaction.
(26:30):
I’ve learned I always have to just pause and it almost doesn’t matter what the question is, it’s just I don’t even know where that one, somehow we developed that in our relationship and I have some ideas where it comes from, but the main thing is that I need to just respond calmly, not whereas otherwise, and I’m a big guy with a big voice, the first thing I usually do is raise my voice and that scares the crap out of everyone around me, spouse, kids, clients. Again, it’s how do we make it a safe place for the person to share their feelings? Because if they share their feelings and you don’t hold space for them, they’re not going to do it again. If they share their feelings and then later you hold that against them, oh yeah, you always flake out and don’t show up again. No one is ever going to share more than once because you can’t share feelings unless there’s safety. The question really is how do I create a circle of safety for people to be able to share? And that starts with me as the leader. I have to be able to listen and hear it without reacting
Stephen Sakach (27:48):
And be vulnerable yourself sometimes as far as creating that space, I’m putting this out there. I expect I’m leading by example in that regard, and obviously I wouldn’t want to
David Greer (28:02):
Be, yeah, I share a lot about my journey in recovery, well both as an alcoholic before what it was like, what happened and what it’s like now. And it’s a very vulnerable story, but it’s my truth too. It’s just my truth. And I’ve got very comfortable at being okay with sharing it.
Michael Liniski (28:26):
That shows a lot of tremendous growth. And as well, I really appreciate your point for highlighting the response reaction. In fact, I was recently given an emotional intelligence tool and it was kind of in reference to a text that there’s a scripture that talks about become rattled but don’t sin. And in this podcast that I was listening to, the moderator was talking about when I blank, I do blank. So that was essentially the tool is like, when this happens, this is how I feel or I react and then I do this. And to just emphasizing or highlighting, I think your point David about that’s slowing down and really looking at when these things happen, what is going on really with me, and then what action does that create next? So yeah,
David Greer (29:24):
For me personally, I have a daily journaling practice in the morning and before I go to bed. And that’s a good place when some of these things show up, even if it’s just a document, even if I don’t have the energy at the end of day to process it and to reflect it, at least if I can get it written down that it’s an issue for me once I take actually pen and paper, not computer and typing, but pen and paper and I get it written down, it drastically increases the chance that I’ll remember or it will stick around. And then maybe you don’t need the 10 days hiking in the woods or 10 days off on Sea Bird, but you do need to find some reflective time at some point to be able to think about these things you can’t always be doing and make progress on these things we’re talking about. Because if you’re just stuck in doing, you’re just going to, I think stay stuck in the same behaviors and the same reactions. That’s where you need to do the slowdown, right?
Michael Liniski (30:31):
Yeah. That’s where the growth happens for sure. David, maybe transitioning a little bit over to purpose, the importance of purpose. Obviously on our show here and even in the marketing that we do as an agency, we know purpose is critical. It’s also a major component of the conscious capital philosophy. And I’d love to ask all of our guests really about purpose and just to kind of highlight I guess its importance. There was a study that was done sometime back by Deloitte where it really revealed that purpose-driven companies see 30% at least higher innovation rates than some of their competitors. Here’s the question. In your view, from your perspective, what do you feel is the importance for an organization of having a well-defined purpose?
David Greer (31:37):
I think it’s really important. Again, the framework that I use really emphasizes purpose and most of the material actually comes from Jim Collins and Good to Great. In Good to Great Jim argues, and I mean he studied, this guy is a really deep researcher. It’s not based on anecdote, it’s based on data that the companies that go from Good to Great are the ones that have a well articulated purpose, which in his idea is this is like 30 years purpose, not just like this year or the way I sometimes describe it to entrepreneurs. It’s like, why do your employees want to get out of bed in the morning?
(32:20):
What’s the bigger reason? Obviously they want to earn a paycheck and be able to have their family or raise their kids. Yeah, obviously a part of it, but there’s lots of ways you could go earn money, why earn it with this company and why do you want to show up and be your best self for that company? Which I think is when you are aligned with the core values of that company and when you are aligned with the deeper, broader purpose that it’s trying to pursue. And in Jim’s world, it’s like thinking beyond the current product mix and you can often use the current product lines. And I’ve done that. I mean the software company I was with for 20 years, we service the heck out of the customer and we loved looking after the customer, but it’s like what’s beyond those particular products and that particular computing platform that really drives you and makes you want to continue moving
Michael Liniski (33:19):
Forward.
David Greer (33:21):
Yes, I am in agreement with that. And again, it’s a really soft, sometimes you just got to experiment with a whole bunch of different ideas and see what resonates over time. No, I’ve not found a magic kind of because a lot of us tend to be, I think, too practical in some ways with the purpose or we relate it too much to our current business rather than a more long-term vision. There. My former coach, Kevin Lawrence, one of his clients is the Little Potato Company, which is based in Edmonton and their BHAG is, they don’t publicly say it, but it’s like some multi multimillions or billions of kilograms of potatoes. And their purpose is to feed the world with potatoes. That is what they live is the mighty little potato. And it’s just a really clear purpose and they just really live it in all the aspects of what they do with their business. And they might have certain kinds of potatoes now they might package ’em a certain way and sell ’em at Safeway in certain ways, but they’re not married to that about continuing to innovate actual potatoes that they grow and create new kinds and find new ways that people can consume them and enjoy them and make that available to a lot of people.
Stephen Sakach (34:54):
And you see the soul and the substance come at it when that purpose is articulated that way versus sell more potatoes, right? There’s no soul, right? There’s no soul in that. Yeah, it’s this is dead sort of thing out there, but when you’re saying no feed the world or something like that, suddenly it changes everything. And it’s a small twist even just …
David Greer (35:16):
Exactly, but the practical, straightforward way you might come to the purpose, sell more potatoes. It’s this creative piece and seeing it in a bigger context and seeing your place in the world in a bigger context, right?
Michael Liniski (35:34):
That one has a lot of meaning. One that always comes to my mind, whether you love it or hate ’em with Tesla, their purpose is to electrify the world. And so that is not a 30 year, but it’s big and it led with cars, then it moved into the home. There’s all sorts of components. There’s the commercial piece, but it just drives the whole organization in a very specific direction why you’re coming to work
David Greer (36:08):
And in 10 years, who knows what products will show up,
Michael Liniski (36:11):
Right? Exactly
David Greer (36:12):
Right. It’s not products, it’s not cars, it’s not solar roofs. I mean, that’s what it looks like today, but it could look completely different product marketing in the future. You’re going to electrify some other part of the world.
Stephen Sakach (36:30):
Yeah,
Michael Liniski (36:30):
Exactly.
Stephen Sakach (36:31):
David, you mentored many leaders. What would you say is the one shift in emotional awareness that tends to unlock the most growth? If something comes to mind,
David Greer (36:46):
It’s really that it’s peeling. It’s having the courage to peel your own onion and look at yourself, which we can rarely do by ourselves. Part of a coach’s role, I believe in the coach training that I got is to really, at the appropriate time, dive deep into people’s belief systems and get them to really look at maybe over time, same thing keeps showing up. And I dig a little bit around and ask them questions, and then eventually they start to realize that they have this belief about the world.
(37:29):
And sometimes it’s really simple stuff like you can be right or you can be happy, which do you want? But they come from a system where being right was so important in the family of origin was just so critical that they don’t realize how attached they are to being right. And to break that, you have to just keep reflecting the mirror up. And I have a client who’s much better at it and occasionally still wants to be right. We’ve probably been working on it for four years. Again, we’re all a work in progress and I have my own issues in my own places where I still have weaknesses and I still have to go work on it. It’s that willingness to continually be on the personal growth path and continually learn more about myself so that I can actually show up differently in the world.
Stephen Sakach (38:30):
A question we ask most of our guests come on the show is some form of this. What role does love play in business?
David Greer (38:43):
I guess let’s go back to recovery. When someone comes into the rooms of 12 step recovery, what we say and early on is we love you until you can love yourself. And I think we get caught up in the idea of romantic love, whereas I don’t see how you can truly lead people unless you have a large part of you that’s open to loving them and loving them mean I love you as you are. I love to be able to help you to become who I see you can be. For 10 years at Robelle, the software company I was with for 20 years, I had a first report, Gary Lathwell, and a few years after I was out of the business and then she was out of the business. We had lunch one day and I turned to her and I asked a very vulnerable question, which is, what’s the one thing good or bad that you remember most about my being your boss? And Kerry said to me, “David, in ten years over and over and over again, you asked me to do things in my heart of heart I knew were impossible for me to do. And then every time I did them.” I don’t think I could have done that if I didn’t. Well, first of all, I believed in her and I don’t think I could have done it if I didn’t love Kerry as a human being, as potential, as really believing in her potential and what she was capable of.
Stephen Sakach (40:19):
And that really is one of the greatest gifts I think as a leader, is when you can push someone to do something beyond what they thought was possible. And I love that comment. Yeah, thank you.
Michael Liniski (40:34):
Let’s see. David, this has been just a wealth of insight. We really appreciate all of your experience. It is just evident to us, and thank you for sharing all of that. For our listeners that want to follow up with you, that you want to learn a little bit more about your work, where would you like them to go?
David Greer (40:59):
Easiest is my website, coachdjgreer.com. That’s Coach D as in David, J as in James Greer dot com. And I want your listeners to know that in the top left page of every page of my website has my phone number and my email address, and I offer anyone who’s interested a free, no obligation one hour coaching call. If there’s something you are stuck on and you would like to have some help, text me, email me, or there is a contact form on my website. If that feels less intimidating, just reach out. We’ll set something up, and I would love to be able to help you.
Stephen Sakach (41:43):
Thank you, David. It’s been great. To our listeners, thank you for tuning in. If this conversation helped you reflect on your own leadership journey, share it with someone who also might benefit, then we will see you next time on the Bliss Business Podcast.
